It shows 3 stainless steels from 750-800tcc but the edge retention graph only has 1 SS in that range, S90v. Sandvik 14C28N steel offers excellent corrosion resistance, exceptional toughness, good edge retention, and is easier to sharpen. To choose the best knife for you between the 14C28N and the D2, look at the steel properties and ensure that they suit your knife needs and lifestyle. Below are some great ways to make your knife your own. D2 has a relatively high amount of carbon in its composition (1.55%), more than twice as much as AEB-L (0.68%), but most of that carbon goes into making chromium carbides instead of into solution in the steel matrix, leaving D2 with only ~0.5% C in solution and very large carbides that are good for wear resistance but bad for toughness. Goes to show that science not marketing or conjecture is what determines a good steel, 51shitty? But in my experience, it has been nothing but great. Not to sound like a ship, but these two knife inspiration makes this an eye-catching knife. 1% saltwater will separate between other stainless steels. This is a virtually stain-proof steel suitable for all sorts of aquatic environments. And given the recipe, it has a low number of carbides, the extra-hard microcrystals in steel that provide the hardness necessary for a stable and sharp edge. Moreover, the blades will serve you longer because they do not wear out faster with frequent use and sharpening. For example, increasing edge retention from Z-Tuff to 3V (100 mm in the CATRA test) led to a drop in over 10 ft-lbs, a similar drop is seen by going from 3V to CPM-CruWear. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. These two knives are a little bit more than a pretty face. Here, read on for an in-depth look at common knife steels as well as the best knife steels around. The hardenable grade of titanium (Beta C Titanium) reaches up to 45 or so rc. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. Manage Settings 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. Its hard to say. 14C28N is offered on midprice knives and is one of the better steels on a dollar-for-dollar basis. Read our full Sobata 398 review here. On the flip side D2 steel is much harder than other steels in this category such as 154CM or ATS-34 and as a result holds its edge a little better. If youre looking for all all-around best knife steel, youd be hard-pressed to find one better than Bohler Uddeholm M390. I wont go into detail about those here. Maxamet and Rex 121 are so extreme in terms of wear resistance and edge retention that I rated them higher than 10 because otherwise it throws off the ratings for everything else. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. Its not bad, but you can find better in the market at the same price. The study of steel is now so complex and nuanced that one can acquire a graduate degree in the subject and still learn new things every day. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. Uddeholm lists it as somewhat worse in toughness than A2 but somewhat better in wear resistance. The ratings I have are for an optimal heat treatment. I also have a video that summarizes some of the information below while also showing how some of the experiments work. Why do knives make the best gifts? Chris Reeves version, which is about two points less hard than others, is quite good. Recommendations are welcome, If you are cutting against metal I would maybe try K390 in a Spyderco or an S110V knife if you need stainless. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. This can turn the ultra corrosion resistant LC200N or Vanax into a normal stainless steel that will rust with only 1% saltwater. REX 121 is a powder steel produced by Crucible. An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. I was thinking maybe Sleipner or A2 would be best if a PM steel was out. I do not have rust issues with it (as long as I have a good finish) some heavy stonewashed finishes rust easier. Coarse-carbide tool steel grades. Should have a first draft by the end of next week. Where did it come from? I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. I see tables that compare Toughness,Edge Retention,Corrosion Resistance. Ive found that most makers harden S30V too much, making it prone to chipping at the edge. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. 3) catra is (as far as i know) the only accredited (iso/en) testing method. In a pocket knife the total amount of steel is rather small. There is no single category that means that a steel is more premium or better than another. Ah ok that wasnt mentioned. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. Using 10 dps sharpening (20 degrees inclusive on the chart) leads to about 5x the edge retention of 25 dps. For more information, please see our While not a powder steel, 154CM is widely used in nicer knives. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. Below shows pictures of a 61 Rc knife that was impacted with a 3/16 rod at different energy levels. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. . Like 154CM, its a good compromise between all three steel attributes. 8Cr13MoV is comparable to the Japanese AUS-8 but containing slightly higher carbon content. Or even if they try to be more open to importance of toughness, the good reputation of the high edge retention steels means that they get inflated toughness ratings along with it. Therefore you will use it for a long time without requiring frequent sharpening. Spyderco is the only production company using this steel, though Michael Gavik of Gavko knives produced a number of customs in LC 200N. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Steel softens as tempering temperature increases, but certain steels see an increase in hardness in a certain higher temperature range such as shown below for high speed steels that are designed for this type of tempering: This high temperature tempering can be done for several reasons, such as better resistance to overheating during grinding, or because a coating will be applied to the knife that requires a high temperature. and why would anyone want to use it when 420HC looks so much better for a simple stainless steel option. Which knife for best? By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. Therefore, you cannot purchase the knife for use in corrosive environments. I couldnt find much on 5160 steel and from a knife makers point of view if you are saying youre the preferred supplier of special ops than I dont understand this choice in knife steel. Other factors include how thick your edge is, how dull your knife was at the start, the nature of the heat treatment, and what youre using to sharpen your knife. If you are a newbie to steel knives and the differences are not yet clear, come with us to the next section as we look into each knifes characteristics, pros, and cons. European steel company Sandvik produces 14C28N, a non-powder metallurgy steel. With steels that have a small amount of carbide the size of the carbides can be kept small through processing (see the AEB-L micrograph earlier in the article). That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Due to its higher Chromium content, S30v is a lot less likely to corrode/rust than the D2 Steel. A2 knives need care taken to avoid rust and are often coated to inhibit corrosion. Phone Hours (MST) Instead, Vargo titanium uses a unique material called sintered titanium-ceramic alloy. Does that mean that companies like Tops, Kabar and ESEE would be better off using 420HC instead of 1095 on their fixed blades? And a label: AEB-L. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). Anyway, buff up the O1v and it cuts leather easily. CPM-S90V is my favorite in the high edge retention category because of its decent toughness. But it doesnt have great wear resistance and thus doesnt hold an edge particularly well. However,M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all pretty difficult to resharpen, so maintain that edge! 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. Pretty interesting that regrinding a knife you already have can seemingly take its performance to that of significantly better steels. Theres still a lot of misinformation being pushed by influencers especially in knife steel rankings. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. Generally this is code for difficulty in abrading away steel. The steel was developed to be free from chromium carbides which gives it properties similar to balanced non-stainless tool steels like CPM-4V and CPM-CruWear. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. EDGE RETENTION . Rex 45 A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). 8am-5pm Saturday. . D2 is mainly considered decent budget steel that comes with better edge retention than the 14C28N. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. I dipped each in lemon juice and left in open air and tested after 30, 100, and 300 minutes, dipping in lemon juice again each time. Almost all of the knives in my EDC rotation are Spydercos, in exotic steels. [Steel Knife Review], What is 14c28n steel? CPM 154 Tougher than D2, but less wear-resistant. while its a very intuitive method and a simple way to e.g. M390 D2 knives, on the other hand, are challenging to sharpen. Its an anomaly in the knife world and quite puzzling to use. Low Carbon steels like AEB-L wont hold up to wood cutting even though it can hit 64 hard, it just doesnt have enough Carbon. Also how did you arrive at the edge retention & toughness numbers for 8cr13mov and for BD1N toughness? As to a difference between 8.6 and 8.5, all of the ratings here are rounded to the nearest 0.5 because better than that probably shows false precision. The bump in hardness comes from precipitation of fine carbides in the steel, which include chromium carbides. Each steel was tested with a knife that was produced just for the test, and then sharpened the same way for each test (15 dps 400 grit CBN sharpening). But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. It is a premium steel that is known for its excellent balance of hardness, corrosion resistance, and edge retention. Almost all consumer-grade pocket knives, EDC knives, fixed blade knives, etc will be in the range of a Rockwell Hardness rating of 54 to 65 HRC. The Sandvik 14c28n steel is ideal for the manufacturing of steel knife blades. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. . Oftentimes steels that are reported to be difficult to sharpen are in fact improperly heat treated and challenging to deburr. 14% of Chromium: Increases corrosion resistance and wear resistance. If you purchase this types of knife, without any hassle you can easily re-sharpening. Different companies can vary some between each other making the same product, while a single company is going to be more consistent. 14C28N VS S30V S30V steel provides improved corrosion resistance, sharpening ease, and edge retention. This is the steel used in Swiss Army knives and is excellent for beginner sharpeners. So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? 14C28N steel is as a result of a more corrosion resistant version of the 13C26 steel. If you would like to change your settings or withdraw consent at any time, the link to do so is in our privacy policy accessible from our home page.. This steel is quite corrosion resistant and sharpens easily. . We have our views as well, and here they are! worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). But its lightyears ahead of the alternatives, specifically titanium-bladed knives. You do not expect the prices to be as low as those of low-end knives, but you will get high performance at affordable prices with either. Editors note: This article was first published in May 2015 and was most recently updated on May 25, 2020. Theyll be fully attributed to you with website and Patreon links, obviously. Any idea where it would be on the hardness and toughness scales? Where the black-finished 1.4116 version has a simple, full flat grind, the D2 version has a compound flat grind that ends halfway up the blade's height. Sorry about the misinformation. D2 steel also offers similar toughness levels as the 14c28n steel, so both aren't really prone to chipping with proper use. Im writing a book about choosing a knife for EDC. Spyderco offers this as the high-end steel for many of its evergreen blades, like the Paramilitary 2, Paramilitary 3, Manix 2, and Native 5. See the chart below showing 52100 steel that was overaustenitized (unintentionally) by a knifemaker that sent me specimens for toughness testing. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. The big names in powder metallurgy are Crucible (CPM- steels), Carpenter (CTS- steels), Bohler Microclean (M390), and Uddeholm Superclean (Elmax, Vanax). I would like to see the rating and performance on test of the Chinese Steels, that some people use to say its cheap garbage, like 3Cr13MoV, 4Cr13, 4Cr13Mo, 4Cr14MoV, 5Cr15MoV, 6Cr13MoV, 7Cr17MoV, 8Cr13MoV, 9Cr13MoVCo, 9Cr18MoV, 9Cr19MoV, and the 14cr14MovNB to see if they are similar, worse or better than the steels that they copyi believe we gonna have some good unexpected results. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. But weve tested this metal in the form of the Sobata 398 for nearly a year and have been continually impressed. Having 1.5% Carbon does that. Edge retention often refers to the ability of a knifes edge to maintain its sharpness during use. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. D2 steel The chart below has dotted lines which indicate the average effect of hardness for any given steel. Fix-It Sticks Compact Ratcheting Multi-Tool Review, Toughness, Wear Resistance, Corrosion Resistance. I actually dont recommend that enthusiasts spend all that much time analyzing the exact composition of different steels and trying to guess their properties. Toughness and edge retention are generally opposing properties and it is difficult to improve both of them at the same time. The brand Bark River uses A2 in many models. In fact Id be delighted to have your experience checking my thinking! I hope you will find value in the articles on this website. Tanto Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. I did a large study of different knives with identical sharpening and edge geometry. Toughness 3, Edge Ret 8, Cor Res 4? Youre right I had to check my spreadsheet. The difference in properties between 14C28N and D2 steel is very clear. GearJunkie Copyright 2013 2023. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. A new steel from Crucible, SPY27 launched in 2020 in the Spyderco Native 5and Para 3. Diamond and CBN stones make sharpening those steels easier. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. Corrosion is not just about cosmetics and rusting, however, but can also affect edge performance. Most vintage tool blades seem to have been made of 1084/1095 or similar, presumably at some <60 Rc hardness that gave the required toughness, and the rules of thumb for sharpening angles are based on those assumptions. Steels that are higher in hardness and wear resistance are usually lower in toughness. It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. Jesse Jarosz, a custom maker from Montana, regularly uses AEB-L. We use a subsize, unnotched chapy test with 2.5 x 10 x 55 mm dimensions. That old pine in particular is some crazy hard stuff. For example, Bohler M390, CTS-204P, and CPM-20CV are all nearly identical and indistinguishable in practice. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. When the blade gets messed up I just replace it. The high hardness makes it all but impossible to sharpen and machine. looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Wear resistance, be it high or low, is the most significant determining factor in ease of sharpening. you can easily buy a $500 knive made out of 14c28n, which has nothing in it besides cr and a trace of ni. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. My favorites of the high edge retention group are Vanadis 8 and CPM-10V. 1.4116 it seems like all the pieces are in place to develop an algorithm for this. That says to me theres a measurable abrasive quality to wood for sure. As such, the performance of the steel is entirely dependent upon the steels being utilized. Between the assisted open, weird looking texture designs, and the stainless steel handle, the Cannonball has a lot of features I don't normally like, but even I have to admit it's a good design for the price. 14c28n steel and D2 steel are both high-quality knife steels. Can you contact me via my email address so I can send you a copy in PDF and epub. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. It would be interesting to try to develop a conversation between /geometry/edge retention/toughness, so we could say e.g. This showed that XHP and ZDP-189 have significantly lower corrosion resistance than other stainless steels. Read about my tests in this article. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. G10 Kershaw, Spyderco and Schrade are among some of the popular users of this steel.. 14C28N. great work, larrin. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. Even people that are aware of your work still do knife rankings and pass them off as steel rankings. Jeff I worked at a company that heat treated D2 (1.55% C) planer blades for a company that built wood working equipment for commercial shops. Heres a brief description of their impact on the resulting steels properties. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. D2 steel, on the other hand, is tool steel, and its knives shine on edge retention and wear resistance. CN Vs VG-10 The Japanese steel, VG10 offers slightly higher edge retention but has the same level of hardness as 14C28N. There seem to be a lot of modern steels that get related to D2, but OTOH just saying a steel is similar to D2 seems to kill interest in it. 8Cr13MoV still has some corrosion resistance, but not as much as D2. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and cant go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. It has an HRc over 70, usually even harder than Maxamet. However, it can be somewhat complicated because an edge can dull from many causes wear, micro-chipping, deformation, or corrosion. compare different heat treats of the same component, it lacks a theoretical foundation and its not clear how to relate it to the real world. My other knives are a Real Steel E77 8cr14mov. If you want to check the quality of my work, just search for The EDC Bible on Amazon. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. The edge retention numbers are normalized to the hardness of the closest toughness test. The benefit of this, of course, is that the steel holds an edge for a very, very long time. H2 Steel produced in China is generally less expensive. Also many hardwoods will dull planer blades just because theyre more dense. The 8Cr13MoV vs D2 debate. Thanks to Bill Smutz, Alex Topfer, Florian Bachler, Brunhard, Art, Rod H, Sach, Jinny Koh, Jon Duda, Cory Henderson, and UPKnife for becoming Knife Steeel Nerds Patreon supporters! Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Not impractical fantasy knives, but these two knives that have a col look to them. However, even steel with the best corrosion resistance can rust without proper care. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. . D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. and corrosion resistance than the 420HC steel. This list is not exhaustive, so check out some of our rating tables for more information on whatever steel youre interested in. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. While some are into that type of thing, if youre familiar with a specific steel and want to compare it with another, you should definitely click on that button below. the following is not a critique, just a few thoughts to maybe put the relationships into a wider perspective and point to additional dimensions. The D2 steel compares nicely with 14c28n steel in terms of edge retention, as it's quite hard as well. Steel ratings are not about ranking steels in terms of what is better than another, but understanding the different balances such as toughness vs edge retention. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. 1095 stains easily and thus is often coated, especially in fixed blades. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). While higher hardness does lead to improved edge retention the bigger reason to have higher hardness is for resisting edge deformation. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. Around 61 Rc usually. There is an acceptable range for every element so this doesnt mean that 1084 will always have exactly 0.84% carbon. rex 121 Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. https://www.patreon.com/Knifesteelnerds, Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window). worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). Hi Larrin Your estimate of 420HCs corrosion resistance is different here than in your October, 2019 post on corrosion resistance testing: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/10/14/corrosion-resistance-testing/ Its not a particularly great cutter, being poor at retaining an edge. And below shows a chart of carbide hardness, the equation we created to predict edge retention based on edge angle, hardness, and carbide volumes, and then the chart showing the good correlation: TCC (mm) = -157 + 15.8*Hardness (Rc) 17.8*EdgeAngle() + 11.2*CrC(%) + 14.6*CrVC(%) + 26.2*MC(%) + 9.5*M6C(%) + 20.9*MN(%) + 19.4*CrN(%). HAP40 440A has more chromium in solution along with a small addition of Mo, but has significant amounts of carbide so the two are an interesting comparison. The pictures below show the microstructures of the three classes of stainless steel on the market. A European powder-metal steel used in higher-end knives, Elmax has an advanced formula, and the result is a very good all-around steel, a generation ahead of formulations like 154CM. 14C28N vs. D2. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2020/05/01/testing-the-edge-retention-of-48-knife-steels/, Unfortunately it all comes down to marketing on everybody involved: Industry, knifemakers, users. I have not provided a rating for ease in sharpening. Hammering through hickory, digging at roots in sandy soil, and cutting around bone did nothing to chip, dent, or roll the edge of my 3V knives. Let's compare 14c28n steel with other steels, and for this, I use four criteria; Edge Retention, Corrosion resistance, Ease of Sharpness, and Toughness and on a scale of 1-10 (10 being the highest) let's see the performance of each steel. This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. PESR would be an interesting topic too (also tied to LC200N). Extra kudos for your mathmatical steel composition to edge holding model thats really impressive work. It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. How long sharpen? Im looking forward to seeing if it does as well in full production. So you can estimate how much a change in hardness would affect edge retention by following the slope of those lines. The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. The blackwashed D2 steel blade of the Kershaw Cannonball offers pretty good corrosion resistance for D2. Many custom makers enjoy AEB-L, as its easy to machine but still has a high hardness, around 62 HRc. Hi Jimmie, thanks for your comments. and yet millons of knives are being made out of 1.4116 (aisi 420mov?) The vivid patterns visible in Damascus steel come from the acid etching process in a ferric chloride solution. It gets exceptionally sharp, a nod to its origins as a razorblade steel. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. GiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife, Muley Freaks Erik Van Woerkom Charged With Felony Possession of Trophy Mule Deer, The Biggest Improvement to My Camp Kitchen Is a Mini Pizza Oven (But Not for Pizza), Propane Traeger, Moosejaw Coolers, Hybrid HOKAs, Adventure Chess, and More Emerging Gear, Avalanche Outside British Columbia Resort Buries 10, Kills 3 Heli-Skiers, Netflix Unveils First Trailer for Tour de France Series. I have a question about the chart This is a nitrogen steel that is extremely corrosion-resistant so much so that its used in knives designed to go in salt water, among the most difficult conditions knives are used in.
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